Episode 37, Season 2. Chuck and Chris discuss the ASSH Annual Meeting with the definitive recap episode. Chris attended in person while Chuck attended virtually while holding down the fort in St Louis. We discuss various sessions, the hybrid format, and lessons learned. All in all, a great meeting under less than ideal circumstances.
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theupperhandpodcast.wustl.edu. And thanks to Eric Zhu, aspiring physician and podcast intern.
Episode 37, Season 2. Chuck and Chris discuss the ASSH Annual Meeting with the definitive recap episode. Chris attended in person while Chuck attended virtually while holding down the fort in St Louis. We discuss various sessions, the hybrid format, and lessons learned. All in all, a great meeting under less than ideal circumstances.
We plan a newsletter launch soon. Subscribe here: https://wustl.us6.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=c6fe13919f69cbe248767c4e8&id=10e0c1dd85
Survey Link:
Help Chuck and Chris understand better what you like and what we can improve. And be entered for drawing to win a mug! https://bit.ly/349aUvz
As always, thanks to @iampetermartin for the amazing introduction and conclusion music.
theupperhandpodcast.wustl.edu. And thanks to Eric Zhu, aspiring physician and podcast intern.
Welcome to the upper hand where Chuck and Chris talk hand surgery.
Chris Dy:We are two hand surgeons at Washington University in St. Louis here to talk about all aspects of hand surgery from technical to personal.
Charles Goldfarb:Thank you for subscribing, wherever you get your podcasts.
Chris Dy:And be sure to leave a review that helps us get the word out.
Charles Goldfarb:Oh hey, Chris.
Chris Dy:Hey, Chuck, how are you?
Charles Goldfarb:I'm doing really well. How are you?
Chris Dy:I am well I'm excited. Just finished up with the hand society.
Charles Goldfarb:Wow. So we are recording on Saturday, October the 2nd. And Chris is in San Francisco. I'm in St. Louis. And we're gonna bring you a rundown.
Chris Dy:Yes, just just fresh out of a post course on nerve where I learned a lot of things. I'm sure that you attended many sessions along the way. I did want to call out one very special thing that my co host Chuck Goldfarb recipient of the Weiland medal for this year. That is fantastic. So for those of you that are not aware, the Weiland medal is named after Andrew J. Weiland actually one of my mentors. And it recognizes a career's body of work. That must mean you're old.
Charles Goldfarb:It is only for the older generation, apparently, which I am a part of, but I am grateful for the honor. And it was you know, I was disappointed in the sense that couldn't be in San Francisco in person, but did a nice, well hopefully it was nice, recorded a summary of my congenital work. I just focused on congenital and it really is quite an honor. So thank you for calling that out.
Chris Dy:It It was It's really impressive. The I think so many people completely agreed that the award was the you know, well deserved. And it was great to see everything come together for you in terms of the research, you really have been able to tell the story and make a difference along the way.
Charles Goldfarb:I appreciate that still still a long ways to go to accomplish all my goals in that front. But thank you. And then one of our fellows, a paper I'm really excited about also won an award. Jocelyn Compton won the Best poster award, which, you know, I honestly thought the paper would have been a great podium presentation and potentially even a top five presentation given the topic is interesting and controversial and maybe moves our field forward. But hey, it's excellent recognition for her work.
Chris Dy:Yes, it's fantastic that this great example of a fellow project that can be accomplished in a year and can inform practice, I know that it's going to make my life a lot easier in terms of being able to talk to patients about acute zone 1 FDPs.
Charles Goldfarb:Yeah, we may end up doing something prospective moving forward. But we did a retrospective look, two cohorts, those that were FDP injuries that were repaired versus not repaired. And the evidence was pretty clear that not repairing, I would guess I would say at a baseline not repairing is a very reasonable option. The data actually supported that it is a superior option. But I think we have a ways to go to call that strongly.
Chris Dy:Yeah, I think it's incredibly useful. I think the motion measurement that you used was the composite flexion distance to the palmar crease. And you know, it was a you know, again, like you said it may have been superior, or better motion for those treated non operatively. But at the very least it's no different. So to say.
Charles Goldfarb:Yeah, and lower complications and etc, etc. But hopefully coming to a journal of hand surgery volume to you soon. But it is an honor. And I'm happy this worked out well. So-
Chris Dy:I gave away a lot of swag here.
Charles Goldfarb:Yeah, tell me about that. You seem to enjoy it. And I'm happy that you got some some opportunity to interact with the different people who listen.
Chris Dy:Love, love our listener community. I think it's one of the best parts about it. It's been very humbling and affirming, you know, to see the reception that the podcast has had, you know, I won't share this person's name. But it was amazing to run into somebody who gave us feedback instead that we have made him a better hand surgeon. Honestly, if we're able to expand our reach in terms of education and bring our hand surgery community closer together in a fun way, I'm all for it.
Charles Goldfarb:Yeah, I mean, that ultimately is music to my ears. It really does feel good to hear that. Yeah, I'm glad I'm glad the swag was a hit. I assume you're out of swag.
Chris Dy:Yeah, I am out. I did make people either take a picture with the swag for obvious reasons or give me feedback on the podcast as to what we could do more of. A lot of people love the detail episodes. So those really deep dives. And you know, there was only one person that asked for more nerve and there was a couple more maybe that asked for more sports. So I guess the people have spoken.
Charles Goldfarb:Thank you for your honesty and integrity and reporting that back the way it is.
Chris Dy:So how did you, I think this is great because I was in person and you were attending virtually, how did you navigate it this year, compared to last year?
Charles Goldfarb:Well, first of all, I think, you know, we have not been an institution that has ever left someone back. Meaning, you know, five of our partners were in San Francisco, I stayed in St. Louis, I think for a lot of reasons that makes some sense. And moving forward, we're gonna have to consider that doing doing that every year. There, I don't know that I handled it perfectly at home with scheduling, I felt like I was running around a lot, I tried to save some time to attend the hand society, virtually, I was able to do that to some degree, but maybe not as much. So I think one of the lessons I've learned is that if we're going to keep someone back in St. Louis, and not go to the meeting and attend virtually assuming that's an option moving forward, you really have to carve out parts of your day and really try to protect it. So I have attended, I attended the vast majority of the opening ceremonies, which were great. And I felt, you know, felt really good to be there. And also made me really wish I was there in person, which was, which was interesting. And then it's been a hit or miss since but all in all, I would say I feel good about what I have attended. But also feel like I've missed out, which you know, is good because that's that's that's the way I should be feeling and look forward to next year.
Chris Dy:I'll be honest with that's kind of the feeling I get usually in person, I know that, you know, the program was a bit scaled down this year, but there's always like, you know, two or three sessions going on at the same time that you want to go to, and you hope you can time it right. So you can see different things. But I you know, kudos to Amy and John, for doing a fantastic job with the program and running. You know, a great meeting, obviously, with tons of support from the hand society and all the volunteer presenters.
Charles Goldfarb:Right, absolutely. I felt the content, though, again, scaled back was really strong. There were a number of things that I was looking forward to, and they did not disappoint. So really, really good meeting, which, you know, I think has accomplished its goals. I don't know the final number for attendance. I know it certainly was in live attendance was down, but I would assume everyone will consider this a success given the challenges of pulling off a hybrid meeting.
Chris Dy:Yeah, I think the opening ceremonies are fantastic. I love love that the the international guest lecturer from the UK, the lecture on contentment was great. So anybody who has registered for the meeting and wants to go back, virtually It is so good. And so, so meaningful in terms of it can inform how you start talking to patients tomorrow, it certainly has changed how I've thought about how I talk to patients.
Charles Goldfarb:I love that I did not I did not hear the international guest lecturer, I did hear the presidential speaker. I thought she was really, really good. I was unfortunately multitasking. But I'm going to go back and listen to that in its entirety again, for sure.
Chris Dy:And that Weiland medal presentation was pretty good, too.
Charles Goldfarb:Oh, you're making me blush.
Chris Dy:No, it was good, especially. So both you and our other partner, Dr. Wall mentioned the OPT strategy in your individual talks. Lindley had a moderated an ICL this morning where we talked about different research methodologies, and how you can do patient, do search or do research with without your own patients. So.
Charles Goldfarb:No, I love the OPT. I've never heard it stated that way or even really stated out loud, but it's true. And it's important as you launch a career. Lindley was really worried about attendance at that early Saturday morning, you know, kind of nerdy session that really had some important things to say, I hope people showed for it.
Chris Dy: So it was a 6:45am session, of course, the day after all the social gatherings and everything. But at the beginning, the panelists were equal to the attendees but towards the end, there was a strong number of people who came in and great questions. So kudos to Lindley for organizing a fantastic session.
Charles Goldfarb:I love it. I love it. So you mentioned the nerve panel that you or nerve session you just attended. I don't know if you were a speaker or a guest. But anything particular that you would like to share with the audience that you learned?
Chris Dy:Yeah, I think that one thing that, and I've seen it in the literature I haven't quite had, you know, enough of a nudge to really try it, I think I'm gonna start doing or at least looking and get into the lab at a very distal transfer to restore FDI function in ulnar nerve injuries. So there's that terminal branch of the of the ulnar motor branch, and transferring a branch from the median recurrent motor to the opponens and you're doing a direct end to end, pretty much in that first web, and I still have some hesitations about, you know, the technical aspects of it and then obviously, you don't want to bugger up any of the intact thenar musculature. The way that it was described today just kind of tips and tricks from folks that it seems like a challenging transfer in terms of being able to get it to reach tension free. So I definitely am going to try that one in the lab before before proceeding. But that was a fun trick that I learned today. And the other on Wednesday, I had the pleasure of stepping in for Jayme Bertelli to moderate a session on nerves since he couldn't make it. And you know, there are some interesting tricks he's using to get closer to target when you're doing a triceps to axillary nerve branch getting really distal on the anterior motor, or the anterior division of the axillary nerve. So again, very much in the weeds on nerve stuff, I thought that was really fascinating to me, I picked up a couple of things I'm going to look at using.
Charles Goldfarb:Well, I love that. That's the kind of stuff that you really want to walk away from the meeting with ideas to maybe pursue, either immediately or with a little more due diligence. I will say that, when I'm doing hand surgery in the CP patient population, I am in that area of the terminal motor branch of the ulnar nerve as we do a DNR release to try to put the thumb in a better position. And then that is really intricate anatomy. We're deep in the palm finding that the end of the ulnar motor nerve, I don't know that I've ever encountered it may have encountered me, but I haven't encountered it, the motor branch to the opponens. But that sounds kind of cool.
Chris Dy:Yeah, well, to see, I mean we're fortunate enough in our program to have, you know, anatomy labs twice a month, and certainly there are, so there's an availability of specimen. So I may ask, may ask them to hold a couple for me so I can, can check it out. What did you learn at the meeting that you're thinking about incorporating,
Charles Goldfarb:I don't think I've learned anything technical, but that's probably on me for not attending enough sessions that that was, that was possible. I do have a few more things to catch this afternoon, including, of course, I was supposed to run on the athlete. And I look forward to hearing what the group is going to put together. So I'll watch that this afternoon. I, you know, I as I generally do, I take in the opening session and the big guest speakers and find a lot of value there, and then try to get in the weeds. So I look forward to looking for some technical steps forward but I haven't encountered any yet.
Chris Dy:It was it was fun to to see everybody. I thought the resident fellows meeting this year was fantastic. So Steve Haas, from Michigan, and Paige Fox from Stanford put together a really great meeting. I was paying a little more attention than usual, just because I'll be co chairing that with Christina Ward next year. And she's from Minnesota. Really excited about that. I mean, it's it's a great program already just looking for ways to make it interactive. That was a day where we had a lot of podcast listeners come up and say hi, which was wonderful. But yeah, that was a great program as well, certainly a lot of technical things that were discussed, that are useful. I mean, I think it was geared more towards residents and fellows, but I found value in it too.
Charles Goldfarb:You know, I really like that Wednesday, residents and fellows meeting, it is incredibly important to what we do as the hand you know, as the and society. And there's always engagement. And I think the speakers tend to bring their best, which is really nice. And that is a great day, and I'm glad to hear you're chairing it. I did not know that. That's next year?
Chris Dy:Next year. Yeah.
Charles Goldfarb:Awesome. I love it. Good for you.
Chris Dy:And I won't talk about the podcast at all.
Charles Goldfarb:No, no, of course not. Of course not. So I have said that when I attend my first in person meeting like, like the hand society, which I missed this week, I will really engage with my, the people more, you know, have coffee and have have a glass of wine as I think you did or go out to dinner. Rather than just running and putting my head down. Have you been able to enjoy it in that way? Did you reconnect with people in a way that you in the way that you hoped?
Chris Dy:Yeah, it was great, you know, reconnected in that sense, you know, more formally for you know, doing like study group meetings for some of the work that we're doing. So getting that kind of stuff done. The in person meetings just generated so many more ideas for our collaborative cohort study, compared to when we're on zoom. So that in and of itself was fantastic. And I found a lot of time to, to meet with people on the sidelines of the meeting. And like you're saying, grab a cup of coffee and talk. You know, I've been fortunate enough to have a lot of people kind of ask, you know, how to pursue a career in academics. And I'm always happy to share because certainly I've been the beneficiary of tons of mentorship and sponsorship, but I'm always willing to pay that forward. So it was really fun. I mean, as we say every year because it's true, but the future of hand surgery is very bright. You know, there's so many great residents and fellows that are going to be following in our footsteps. But then, of course, seeing old friends of you know, the folks from HSS where I did my residency and then seeing the WashU hand family. You know, it was great, you know, so all the former medical students and residents and fellows that have come through through our hand service.
Charles Goldfarb:You guys got together last night, I believe and I assume that means there was a good turnout despite a down year for attendance in general.
Chris Dy:Yeah, it felt it, you know, obviously, it was really good, everybody was really excited to be together. And, you know, we all had a really good time. And, you know, it's one of the things where sometimes the the smaller gathering is a little nicer. I wish that we could have everybody though, for sure.
Charles Goldfarb:I can share that I did participate virtually, in the business of hand surgery committee meeting. And that group is excellent. And they are really rolling with ideas. And it seems to be popular as as a target for people to join the committee. But the committee is filled with ideas. And I think they're going to, in some ways, move forward to almost a handy for the business have answered your ideas, which I think is fantastic. It's always been an interest of mine. Now, I was able to sort of sit on the sidelines on zoom, despite not being there in person. So that was fun for me. And again, I think it gets to your point of just more ideas happen and more movement happens in person that can be expected on zoom.
Chris Dy:Yeah, they're launching a I think it's a big initiative for the incoming president Jeff Greenberg. Called HandP so P standing for practice as opposed to education. I think they're gonna have some podcast episodes. So you know, I think that'll be great as, as we talked about in a prior episode, it's gonna be tough to compete with Chuck Goldfarb, the Tesla podcast host, but I think they have their I think they have you squarely in their sights. But we do encourage more people to get into space and, you know, grow the community.
Charles Goldfarb:Yeah, absolutely. There is certainly room for many of us to kind of bring education in a good format to people who want to talk and listen about hand surgery. So I look forward to seeing what they're able to accomplish. And it'll only move us forward for sure.
Chris Dy:Yeah, the committee meetings are a big part of it. And, you know, we had our Government Affairs Committee, which I cared for the last few years. And now Mica Sinclair from Kansas City is taking over and she's done a great job of just, you know, bringing some more energy, more ideas, we had a guest speaker from the the AAOS pack, the chair of the Advisory Council, or the Advocacy Council, for the Academy, and just talking about all the issues that are going on at Capitol Hill right now, the stuff that, you know, honestly, I didn't really think much about as a resident or a fellow and even early in practice, you know, some of the research I do relates to policy, but at a very high level and a different end of the spectrum. So I think it was great to hear what's going on in DC, and the importance of, you know, being in tune with that.
Charles Goldfarb:Yeah, you know, clearly the world of societies and meetings is going to change moving forward, much like the practice and healthcare is changing in front of our eyes. And, you know, when I think about going to a meeting, like the orthopedic Academy, and wonder whether I'll do that regularly in the future, it doesn't mean I don't support the work that the academy does around advocacy, especially. But so many of the things that these organizations provide for us that sometimes is invisible to us, is really important. And so this type of work, I think, is not always appreciated, but it should be. And so I'm glad you know, I know you've been you've enjoyed your involvement in that committee and advocacy work. And it's just really important for all of us as physicians, surgeons and answers in particular.
Chris Dy:Now, I didn't get to see how well attended the sports sessions were but I will say the nerve sessions were pretty well attended. You know, I think it was it. In a sense, it's unfortunate that so many of the International speakers couldn't come and give presentations, but the taped presentations are great. By and large, technically it went off pretty well. There were some kind of computer delays in the room and everything. But it was it was really neat to see, you know, some of our colleagues on social media, showing what they were involved in and how they were tuning in. It did feel like there was a fair bit of engagement from the those that were joining virtually.
Charles Goldfarb:Absolutely, it's just going to grow the excitement for next year's meeting. No doubt about it. And next year's meeting actually could be a record setter as far as attendance which would be awesome. I think as we kind of close, two teasers and you may have others one is that next week in St. Louis is the ASHT meeting. And you are very active in that meeting. I had to scale back unfortunately because I'm going to see my freshmen or first year daughter at Yale, so I'm excited to see her but I will be participating with you with a live recording of a upper hand podcast so that's fantastic. And then second of all the podcast we're going to release next week is also one that I am very much looking forward to an interview you and I did recently.
Chris Dy:Yeah, I mean are we allowed to say with whom we just talked Alright, so we talked with Jorge Orbay the designer of the, The famous and some would say infamous, I guess volar locking plate. And it was a great discussion, honestly, really about kind of his path in innovation. some specifics about, you know, the, the landscape at the time and and how he took an idea and then really ran with it. So it's a great discussion. I hope that everybody enjoys it. And as he made, he's gonna be great. You know, we've we've talked about it before, but super excited about it. Lots of swag to be given out, for sure.
Charles Goldfarb:All right, well, thanks for joining me from San Francisco. And this was kind of fun to run down some of the excitement around the ASSH meeting. And I look forward to seeing you back in St. Louis.
Chris Dy:Yeah, I think it'll be great. I'm probably going to try to tune into some of the stuff that I missed just because you can't be in multiple places. Now, let's see is probably the best part about the virtual meeting is that you eventually can get back to it. It's just a matter of getting back to it.
Charles Goldfarb:Awesome. Love it. Alright, safe travels and great to see you.
Chris Dy:Alright, nice seeing you have a good day.
Charles Goldfarb:Hey, Chris, that was fun. Let's do it again real soon.
Chris Dy:Sounds good. Well, be sure to check us out on Twitter@handpodcast. Hey, Chuck, what's your Twitter handle?
Charles Goldfarb:Mine is@congenitalhand. What about you?
Chris Dy:Mine is @ChrisDyMD spelled d y. And if you'd like to email us, you can reach us at handpodcast@gmail.com.
Charles Goldfarb:And remember, please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts
Chris Dy:and be sure to leave a review that helps us get the word out.
Charles Goldfarb:Special thanks to Peter Martin for the amazing music. And remember, keep the upper hand. Come back next time.